Ep 8. Navigating the Intelligent Workplace: Insights from Peter Thompson

Tristan Kelly: 00:00:10

This is High Five, the podcast that celebrates people, ideas, and moments that make workplaces come alive. I'm Tristan Kelly.

Mike Galea: 00:00:18

And I'm Mike Galea. And every episode, we dig into what drives creativity, culture, and connection in today's workplaces and how to keep that energy flowing from bold ideas to everyday wins. If it inspires people to thrive, we're talking about it.

Tristan Kelly: 00:00:27

Today we're diving into one of the most fascinating developments in the world of work.

The rise of the intelligent workplace.

Organisations now have access to more workplace data than ever before, from occupancy sensors to collaboration, analytics and AI-driven productivity tools. However, even with all that data, many leaders still say they don't truly understand how work is actually happening within their organisations.

So today we're exploring how workplace data can help organisations make smarter decisions about space, about culture, and about performance. And where the risks might be if we get it wrong.

For decades, organisations measured work using simple metrics, things like occupancy, desk utilisation, cost per square foot.

But the modern workplace is becoming an intelligent system where data tells us not just where people are, but how they collaborate, how they feel, and how productive they actually are. Over 70% of organisations now use workforce analytics to guide decisions about talent, performance, and workplace strategy.

But what does that actually look like in practice? What data should organisations really be looking at? And Mike, how do we avoid drowning in dashboards?

Mike Galea: 00:01:50

Well, that's a really interesting question because there are dashboards for absolutely everything with a multitude of features and power bi and data that drives it in the background. And then we get these all singing, all shiny dashboards that we can go in and we keep on our screen. I've got one myself. I use a dashboard.

But the fundamental difference between what I was looking for was I knew the question I was asking from the outset in order to drive the dashboard itself. But when you go out into companies and you talk to data companies and dashboards are very relevant, by the way. Often do we lead with a question.

What am I looking for? What do I want to see? How easy, connectable is it? And does it tell a story that is worth sharing with others?

Or is it just simple KPI methods or performance measures or standards or whatever it is we're looking for? And there's some really advanced tools out there and some really advanced dashboards.

But the power is in the story because the data doesn't lie, but it's understanding what story we're trying to tell.

Tristan Kelly: 00:02:55

Yeah, the data may not lie, but it can be manipulated. Okay, you've talked about a few different dashboards there.

If you advise in a CEO tomorrow, what are the three workplace metrics that actually matter that you would advise them to measure?

Mike Galea: 00:03:10

Culture is a big one. Very, very hard to measure culture.

But when you look at happiness or engagement or workplace temperature, how do we do that in a way that's meaningful in a D dashboard? So any CEO can see, predict and react in the moment to that workplace culture, to the dynamics, how people feel about the job that they do.

I suppose that would be one big one. Now the how we do that is a lot more difficult because it requires a lot of thinking, but it does provide insight into a scalable workforce.

So that would be my, my first one, if, and I'm talking utopia, I'm talking about if we, if we could have anything in a, in a dashboard. You know, the second thing a CEO wants to look at is performance and costings and revenue and P L and all that type of stuff.

Of course, that's a given because that is the fabric of the business. That's why it exists. So, yeah, that, that would be the second one. Do you have a third one, Tristan?

Tristan Kelly: 00:04:11

Well, a measurement that's quite close to my heart, if you like, is employee engagement. And if we look at the current trend in employee engagement, we're down to about 21%.

So even with the introduction of AI and intelligent workplaces, that employee engagement's quite low. So I would want the CEO to have that on their desk because they should be looking at driving customer and employee engagement.

So that, that for me, that would be a metric I'd like them to be overseeing and keeping an eye on. Now, do you think, though, Mike, that organisations should be transparent?

So if we're collecting data on our employees, should we be telling them that we're collecting that?

Mike Galea: 00:04:49

Well, it depends what type of data we're collecting. And you know, our guest today is going to go into much more detail around the power of data and the power of storytelling through data.

But you know, data is a given. Look, it's tracked from the moment you walk into a building, you scan your, your card, your pass, and that's data.

That's data being collected from your time in that speed gate, your time in that building to the time that you leave that data is being collected. Some organizations are collecting data on, on your move heat maps. Where does it get busy? Where does it not get busy?

Other people are using data on desks and meeting rooms of what is getting booked and what's not getting booked. But data is a fundamental part of Working practice. So do I think it's right? Yeah, we do collect it, how we use it though.

And again, what we're trying to answer is different altogether. But yeah, I mean, I'm all about transparent data. I have my own set of dashboards under, under Amica.

And what we do and we collect data on whether we're delivering a five star experience. Now we have many different sources that feed in from that one.

Whether it's we're collecting data on first impressions, like memorable moments, we're collecting data on our quality audits, we collect data on our mystery shops.

Now I wanted to set a precedence to create transparency and not just for our clients and the people that hire us deliver a service for them, but also for our own workforce because I know psychologically them being connected to what's being said, what's being tracked, whereas my standpoint is really, really important whether it's a 4.8 star experience overall collated or whether it's under that that gives people their own opportunity to review and surmise and then develop. So I do believe that data is important. Where I think data is misused is some of the metrics that's followed. Net Promoter Score being a big one.

So we, we know we have satisfaction scores, but we also have Net Promoter Score. And it's so widely m. Because Net Promoter Score is fundamental.

Core simplicity is testing and generating an answer on how loyal customers truly are to a brand, a service or a product. But we use it to test satisfaction. And I see that so much.

And you can't ask someone 15 Net Promoter Score questions because it just dilutes the impact of the response you get. What you're saying is, are you loyal to us? Now asking that one question, are you loyal to the business that you work for?

Is a really powerful question, but asking it 15 times, are you loyal to your team? Are you loyal to the organization? Are you loyal to your job? Well, it just what are you trying to answer there and what are you trying to track?

And it just dilutes that nps. So that's my own view on various.

Tristan Kelly: 00:07:41

Types of data though as you mentioned, there's so many types of data that can be measured and I would just hope that organizations are measuring the right things.

They're not looking to track things that aren't meaningful, that they're tracking things that actually contribute to providing more enjoyable and more engaging workplaces.

I'm sure our guest Peter Thompson, who is a workplace strategy consultant and has a lot of experience in this field, is going to have some Great insights for us, Mike, when we bring him on shortly. Before we do that, have you got a have you got a did you know for us this week?

Mike Galea: 00:08:17

I do have a did you know and quite aptly as we're talking about workplace design and workplace data, through our wonderful guest Peter, I have a did you know that's all about data this time. So are you ready for this?

Tristan Kelly: 00:08:31

Let's bring it.

Mike Galea: 00:08:32

Okay, I'm going to talk about the day data broke trust. Here we go. So imagine walking into work on a normal Thursday morning, coffee in hand, inbox already overflowing.

You log into your employee portal and freeze your account. Shows that you've just been awarded thousands of newly issued company shares.

So at the first you think it must be a mistake, but then you wonder, or is this some kind of bonus, a windfall? Did I miss an announcement or an email? Was something said, this is amazing. What a great opportunity.

Now that's exactly what happened at Samsung securities in South Korea.

And what really happened was a routine dividend payment turned into a real life financial earthquake when a single employee typed a thousand shares per person instead of a thousand one per share. And it accidentally created $105 billion wor of phantom stock.

Now within minutes, some employees started selling them like they're non existent shares. They don't exist, but they started selling them on the open market.

And then over around 40 minutes the company's value, when we're talking about one of the biggest brands on the planet was thrown into absolute chaos. Samsung went on to lose more than $300 million cleaning up the mistake. But you know what the real core of the story is? It's not really about money.

It was about trust. Can you connect to that?

Tristan Kelly: 00:09:56

I can because trust is such an important facet within organisations.

Mike Galea: 00:10:00

Absolutely. So when, look when employees open those accounts, they saw numbers that didn't make sense. You know, something deeper.

But because the moment a workplace system proves it can be wrong, really wrong, employees begin to quietly question everything it touches. And it goes back to the point we talk around about data and trusted data.

Because if the dividend system can be up by millions, does that mean the payroll system can be off? Can performance data be trusted? Bonuses, targets, rosters, lead balances, the whole lot. So the trust in the system breaks, it breaks that confidence.

And then as we know, once confident breaks, it is really hard to rebuild. This incident showed something really, really powerful. We can't just rely on systems, we can't just rely on that level of data.

We know there is always going to be humanistic elements to that. There's going to be humanistic errors, but we are emotionally anchored to systems.

But when the data is clear, consistent and trustworthy, people do feel safe. They focus, collaborate, perform. But when data becomes unpredictable, employees experience a subtle lingering anxiety.

The workplace does start to feel unreliable. And that emotional drag, even if no one's talking about it, it shapes how people show up every day.

So we can call it the fat fingered error, but it's really much more beyond that. And it's how we incorporate data into workplace experience because it's not just about culture, legion or perks.

It really is about the power of the quiet, invisible systems employees depend on every single day, whether those systems reinforce trust or erode it. And it goes back to your data dashboard question, which is a hard one to answer because we trust in what we see.

And I said something earlier about the data doesn't lie. And you said, well, it can be manipulated or errors can occur, but everything has to work right. And it's getting the fundamental basics right.

Pay being correct, pay slips, going out on time, time benefits that get calculated accurately. A system that does what it promises. So you know from one, from one data error caused a whole downfall in do we trust this system?

Do we trust the data that we're seeing?

Tristan Kelly: 00:12:12

It's a really good example.

An example where it wasn't a mistake and data was manipulated is the story around Volkswagen in the States where they were deliberately manipulating emissions tests so the vehicle knew when it was being tested and delivered a lower emission report. And that eroded customer trust not just across the States, but also across Europe.

And I think they're still going through their challenges at the moment in Europe in terms of what the fines will be for that. So, yeah, data, clearly you get some mistakes. Being able to rectify that as quickly as possible is great, but.

But from a cynical point of view, data can be manipulated for the wrong reason. So we have to be careful for that. Great insight there, Mike. I think we'll now hand over and introduce our guest.

Mike Galea: 00:13:06

So here we are, the magic moment of the podcast. The people want to hear the voice of the experts, not just me and you, Tristan.

Going on our own mindset of what we think workplace design and data is. And there's no greater expert than our guest today, Mr. Peter Thompson.

So Peter Thompson is from Rethink Workplace Group, has years and years and years of experience both within workplace design, workplace infrastructure, culture, community engagement, all that stuff. And of course our main theme of today, which is usable workplace data. It gives me A great pleasure to see you Peter.

To welcome you onto the hi Fi podcast.

Peter Thompson: 00:13:49

Well, I'm not sure I recognise that intro, so very flattered by it. Who am I? Well I was born in Yorkshire, came to London.

Well I thought was going to be six months to learn about technology pre Internet when I was about 20 years old, thinking I was going to learn a trade and go back play my trade back in Yorkshire. And that was 32 years ago and I've lived in the south ever since.

Another sliding doors moment where somebody said to me, you seem like a bright enough kid. Why are you just living for the weekend? I said well I don't really know what to do.

And this guy said, come to London and I'll teach you about computers. And I didn't really know what computer was.

Certainly I'd never been to London, thought about it and I wrote this, I mean this is how old I am and how long ago it was. I wrote to him, a letter, handwritten letter, and said really enjoyed our chat.

Can you tell me what courses to go on to learn about this, this newfangled thing, this computer thing. And he rang me on a Sunday night, he said I'm gonna offer you a job, come to London. And in two weeks I was in London.

I spent the first 10 years of my career in technology learning and then being given these huge weighty tomes of Microsoft books to go and read at the weekend. Every weekend I was reading books and trying to break computers and rebuild them.

But that's quite relevant to my story because it was like I, I, it was a tall fluke, total sliding doors moment but probably the best thing that ever happened to me because it gave me a chance to kind of go and explore and kind of do something really cool. So, so yeah, that's a bit of my background. And then how did I get into real estate? It's probably a relevant question.

a law firm back in the early: 2000

I was considered to be a technology expert at the and they said we're not going to just do the normal thing of go and outsource this to technology consulting. We want to bring somebody in the real estate group and we want somebody to help design our technology to help the workplace experience.

Not that we use the term workplace then it was more just the real estate experience. But so they succumbed me to the project for two years. I just fell in love with real estate. I thought it was brilliant.

I thought it was the best thing that ever happened. You spent all day meetings talking about so many diverse things from furniture to cooling to all these kind of things.

I just fell in love with the whole thing and the project finished. We've done some pretty amazing things with technology, with workflow, we take in a lawful amount of offices into open plants.

I mean this is: 2008

I thought this is this intersection of people, place and technology is just how my brain works. I loved it. Very challenging trying to get people to do things that you thought were simple. There was capital. Every project that's a move.

You get capital so you get money to experiment. So do loads of great things. And the bug, I had the bug. So I was like hankering for my next project which came along very quickly.

Similar type of thing, although it was a media company. They asked me to go and help them with the 12 month project again, moving two offices into brand new office.

And that was 12 months which turned into five years.

And they flew me around the world to build offices and then I was on a first class flight to Singapore to go and design a new office, having never done it before outside of the uk, thinking actually I belong in some of this and I can do it and I'm gonna. And I didn't really know what I was gonna do, but I used the formula of let me go and find out and explore and press buttons and, and figure out.

And then I was in Singapore and they said can you go to Tokyo and do. In Tokyo, can you go to Sydney? And they were just flying around the world, building offices, making connections.

And I just learned loads about real estate. I built a formula. I loved it, I fell in love with it. And it was kind of pre workplace strategy. It was a. It was.

You were more considered estate consultant that did project management and throughout that period got a ton of confidence that I could do kind of, you know, you could throw any kind of real estate problem. I mean I'd be able to kind of figure it out.

Mike Galea: 00:17:53

Just before we move on from there, there's a. Because there's a relevant question here for you, Peter.

So you start out as a chef, left school with no qualifications, then you know, you wanted to be a cricketer.

You then fell into computing because by chance someone saw something in you and you were just pragmatic enough to write a letter which got you, the job. When it comes to workplace design, you're not an architect. And then you're thrust into spatial design. And you talked about your formula.

How did you even connect to that at such a young age, where you're in Singapore, a completely different country with a completely different culture, and you're like, yeah, I can design your space for you. What was going on in your mind back then?

Mike Galea: 00:18:30

Well, I think I'm lucky that I don't have a prejudice. I'm not an architect, so I don't think of it with a foregone conclusion.

Something we did at Barclays, and I think we did it really well when we were there, is we stopped asking what we thought would predetermined outcome questions and said to the MD of the office or whomever, and they would tell me what they want, I'll go, okay. And they go, oh, aren't you going to tell me what you want? I went, no, I'm. I want to listen to what you want.

I want to know what you want to achieve with this. And then I'm going to try and see what I can. How I can mold that. There are parameters you have to work with. There's always a budget parameter.

There's also spatial parameter. But I, I think because I hadn't come from an architectural background, I had no bias in this at all.

And my, my mind was always, how do I make this work for them in the best way possible? So what's the, what's the optimum outcome with the. With the ingredients I've been given? And that's a shameless plug into being a chef. Right?

But it, but it's.

You're given ingredients, and sometimes your ingredients are vast and plentiful, sometimes ingredients, you've got to kind of make an omelet with just a bit of cheese, but you will make the best omelet with the ingredients. So it's all about the parameters you're given. And I wouldn't say I'm the best at what I do or the worst.

I just think about things in the way that what's the best and optimal outcome? And I. And I'm actually very shy and introverted, but I work really hard and build relationships with the people I was delivering for.

Really, really hard. Like, I wanted to win them over. So, yeah, I don't really have a preterm outcome, I have a formula.

But the formula is about connecting people, place and technology together. And how do I do that with the ingredients I've got. So if I become too predetermined I think I lose a bit of what makes me me.

Mike Galea: 00:20:05

We talked quite a lot on this show about workplace dynamics and the ever shifting workplace from expectation to experience to ATT to retention. How is your thinking formula changed over the last seven or eight years?

Peter Thompson: 00:20:19

Also a good question. So what I've realised is, so the thing that doesn't change is people and human nature, right?

They might, they might, people might think it changes, but human, human nature is, has been thousands of years of human nature. We, we like being together, we operate very well together. And, and I'm not a advocate either way for hybrid.

Working for, working from home is not better than working the office. We like, like being together. It's, it's just a fact. Right. I. People like connection.

I think, I think where things change is you need to be able to use data to enrich the outcome and enrich the conversation.

Where I've seen some challenges and I think I fell into the trap a little bit is we used the data and we thought it was going to give us the answers at one point. And if you use the data in the right way, it gives you rich conversational outcomes.

So I can prompt something, I can spark something, I can get really clever data sets based off some original business questions that we've asked.

Somebody saying, so what's the top, you know, what's top five things, 10 top 10 things that are really important to you and then creating these relationships with the people. I'm going, the data is starting to tell us this, but I, I can't answer the question because I don't know your business that well.

And I did it the other day with a client and we sat with them and I said, I think I, there's five things happening here, but I just can't work it out because I don't know your business. And they immediately went to oh, you, I've got it. And we spent half an hour talking about this particular.

I wouldn't have got there in a million as ever, what the data prompted it and it was just like these are brilliant moments. So I think the data is getting better. The way we collect the data is getting better. The technology allowing us to get data.

But one thing that will never change is human nature or not change radically. And you've got to kind of create those intersects where you can enrich the conversation.

And, and it's funny, we're getting quite a lot of interest as our shameless plug in our little rethink company which has kind of just started and we're starting to bubble up. And we're good at interpreting data and talking to people. Telling that as a product is quite hard by the But.

But that's where we want to pitch ourselves as, you know, really working closely with clients to find those 10% moments that make all the difference. And if you can operate in that space and work really well and make difference at the kind of the.

The top 20 10%, you make a difference to the organisation, and you become trusted. You become like, come and talk to us because we think something's happening. Can you help us kind of bridge the gap and then.

And then we become really trusted in that world. So, I mean, I can get lost in data very quickly.

And I've disciplined myself not to, because almost the point where I'm saying I got enough to prompt the conversation. And I know what I'm trying to do is provoke and I'm trying to create a positive collision with the clients.

Like, I've got something, let's collide into each other a little bit. Let's spark off each other and let's get to an outcome where you get what you want and I can do more better things for you.

So I think it's that I think the data is getting more available because the technology in the systems is more available. Some of the stuff that we were trying to do 10 years ago was so hard. Now it's just incredibly powerful.

You know, this stuff that's available to us, it doesn't make a difference if you get it in the wrong way. If you get the data too. Too much. There's too much data. If you tell the client the wrong thing, they're like, yeah, but what.

I don't know what you're trying to tell me. And they get confused. And we operate with quite senior people and they get frustrated very quickly if you can't answer the question.

So there's definitely a gap in the market for what I would call workplace intelligence rather than just being workplace analytics. Workplace intelligence, there's a big gap in the market and we, we think we can. Can kind of operate in that space quite well.

Tristan Kelly: 00:23:38

Is there anything either recently or over your lustrous career working with data, is there a piece of insight that really surprised you from a human-centric point of view?

Peter Thompson: 00:23:49

It's a good question. And what I would say is if we're really all honest with ourselves, when covert hit, we're all like, what, what next? Right.

I mean, I remember, I remember just started a consulting agreement. I was really pleased because I'd just gone back into consulting it was a really good contracts, really good company and covered here.

And I thought, oh, my goodness, I'm going to get terminated and that's it. I'm gonna, I'm gonna be sat home, like having a very long break without any money, and how am I going to survive? That didn't happen.

They actually kept me on and made me really busy through covered, which was, which was fabulous. But I remember having lots of conversations at time that were people demanding to me, literally demand that this is the death of the office.

This is it, this is the big one where we're never going back to the office of London will be a ghost town and that's it, we're never going back. And I remember saying, I don't think that's right. And they were like, the data's showing it. Nobody's going, but we can all operate from home.

We've all got wi fi home now. We've all boosted our Internet to, you know, gigabytes and we're all getting fibre home.

And I was being literally not shouted at, it's not fair, but told by my, my peer group and industry experts, you're wrong, you're wrong. We're never going back. We're never going back. And I, and I remember thinking, the data's shown that they're right and I'm wrong.

But my instinct is, the human nature is that we will find our way back into the office. And I think that's one of my biggest lessons.

I was really, I was really calm through covert after realising that I wasn't going to lose my consulting gig. And I thought, this is going to be a massive learning experiment for us all.

And the data is going to show all kinds of things and people are going to. May me to your point, people manipulate data. Just look, look, nobody's going back in the office and going, yeah, but we give us time, right?

This is, we, we are like thousands, if not hundreds of thousands of years old as a human race. And we always find our way into tribes.

So surely a virus isn't going to break that unless, unless the virus is so damaging that it stops us actually being together. You know, human, human beings have always found their way through it.

So I remember, I just remember the data being thrown at me saying, you're wrong, you're wrong, you're wrong. And I'm like, okay, yeah, I can't prove you wrong at the moment. And, and I have seen trigger another thought.

I've seen people manipulate stats showing, look, there's nobody going back to the office. Return to office is failing. Sat on a tube where I'm like, well, sudden tube where I'm nosing.

Well, it's not this, it's not the data I'm seeing because what I'm seeing is people reconnect and, and I think London, I think London's an amazing city for all kinds of reasons. London is back to almost pre pandemic occupancy in a different way. I think it's great.

And, and the lovely boutique get really expensive coffee shops, which I love for a thriving people are, you know, I don't drink alcohol, but people are going to pubs in the evening. I walk past them and it's brilliant. People are chatting, people are smiling, people packing gyms in. It's not a data thing, but it's a tribal thing.

That's, it's. I, I think it's brilliant to see and, and I think is what keeps us sane as the human race, that we can connect and be tribal together.

So, yeah, I think data can be immediately manipulated and say, we're never going back, we're never going back. But I was like, I was always like, I don't believe you, I don't believe it.

Mike Galea: 00:27:05

So just on that point then, and this is, this is drifting back into your workplace design days, I am sure after the pandemic, you were contacted continuously to say, build me, design me a space that's going to attract and retain people back. It's going to want them to connect. Now you're talking about London being back to, to, you know, being back to the same levels.

So that viewpoint doesn't seem as relevant now because the habit starts to creep in that I'm habitually going to the office. Where do you think the future of the workplace is going then?

Peter Thompson: 00:27:38

I'm going to sound really boring in my answer. We want simplicity. So what actually people really want is almost frictionless work, life, balance.

When you hear about the new campus that's got the basketball courts and the running track, I look at it and go, brilliant. That's fantastic. If you can afford all that, it's brilliant.

But when I speak to people, what they say is, what I'm trying to do is get my career going on, my career off the ground, or I'm in the middle of my career, but I've got a family at home, I've got a young family, I want to get home quickly.

So the things that I think about are how to make it as frictionless as possible and to maximise their productivity and the outcome for those people so they can be as happy as possible. And anyone that says they're making the workforce really, really, really happy with all this is telling fibs. It's not possible, right?

Because I have three good days out of a week and I have one day, which is a bit. And one day where I'm usually grumpy as hell because something's happened. So.

But I'm always thinking, what's the 60, what's the 20, what's the other 20? Most of us are like that. So we're trying to get frictionless approach to work.

And really, if I said to you, I'll give you a really nice desk and a really nice wide screen and technology that works all the time, and because you spend a bit of time doing deep work, I'll give you some private space to go to and really good coffee and somewhere to get lunch which is within proximity of your space and a gym to go to. Most people would rip my arm off and go, you've got it right. Because we are basics in our needs, right? We don't, we don't all need basketball courts.

I mean, if you said to me, there's a basketball court in the office, I've never played basketball in my life. It bears no relevance to me. In fact, I'm a fanatical kind of work. I work, I work out all the time.

My cycle, I don't go to gym in the office doesn't attract me because I don't work out that way. I work out first thing in the morning. But the one thing I need to do is get into my space and be efficient as possible.

So if you put barriers in the way and if you say to me, I'm going to create all this collaboration being backspace, that's a barrier to me being efficient because I don't work that way. So what we're trying to find is the right balances all the time.

Where the data really helps us intersect is no architect, no workplace designer will get it right first time.

But if we get most of it right and then put layers of feedback loops into either data or workplace experience, people getting human feedback, the 20 tweaking will really make it efficient. So get the 80 as perfectly right as possible and then get the data telling you stories that you can intersect.

Because you may build a space that you designed four years ago, because that's how these things work. They're long cycle, especially in the big space. And you may forget why you built that space.

So the architects designed it, you built it, you work in the space and you Find it's not being used. That might be because people don't know how to use it. So we have to activate that as hard as possible and really get into it.

Peter Thompson: 00:30:15

Do you realize this space was designed for this? Yeah, I've been looking at it and it's like I didn't quite know what to do with it, but I know you've told me, but can I should make a tradition.

Can I put some of this in there? Can I put a extra bit of power in there? Because I like to read in this quiet room with my laptop. Sure we can. It's like buying a house, right?

You, most of the house you buy you really like, but the 20% is where you make your kind of tweaks and your improvements. We're just trying to do that on a macro scale in the office, but we have to work within the parameters. We can't customize it to death.

But most people are really focused on being productive. If I was to give a headline we over complicate something to try and hit the silver bullet.

The silver bullet is to be uncomplicated and to be simple in some respects. And again architects probably will go, yeah, but we want to do beautiful things.

I know you do, but the human nature is very simple the way, the way it represents.

Mike Galea: 00:31:04

So my, my final question for you, Peter, and you've given us so much rich information.

I've got a million questions that I want to ask you and I could spend all day talking to you about all of this stuff from workplace to unoccupied collab spaces. And even the point you mentioned there of you need a little nudge to habitually move you on and carve out that time.

And when you're talking about kind of flexibility and work life balance and simplicity, absolutely amazing. But let's drill back down to you and just give us a little elevator pitch on your new business venture then. So what is Rethink Workplace?

Peter Thompson: 00:31:43

Before Rethink was a name, we were sat in the kitchen, I think it was a Sunday afternoon going, there's a, there's a, there's a potential kind of position in the market for a data led workplace strategy company that can use a blend of skills and experience and go and work and really represent the client, but maybe create some edge around using technology to create a bit of advantage.

I must have kept saying to the team that we kind of worked with to kind of come up with the ideas we really got to rethink continually and rethink and, and, and then suddenly said, yeah, I thought about that. We kept the word kept coming up, think, think, think. And we thought, well, why don't we rethink the workplace continually.

So it was a little bit of an evolution around we constantly rethinking. Nothing stays still in any, in any world, but especially in real estate. And I, I'd been as you know, we'd worked at Barclays.

We came into that account and it was quite plunging when we went into that account it was great people and there was like massive task ahead of us. We were early days of COVID and we built some models off the back of that which I thought were phenomenal.

I thought maybe I can do this on a small scale for myself independently. I'd always thought about doing something like it.

I still have this passion to build something quite big as a workplace strategy company and one of the things that was driving me was technology, the potential of AI.

But if I go back to part of my original opening being given a sliding doors moment in my career, I have found people like me who have been told they are stupid or struggle because they think differently or been just work conventional loans at school so they've lost their confidence. And I.

One of the rethink things which we haven't done yet or it's on our radar and we've, we are thinking about if we can get some funding is to go and find people to train that struggle, find the way. And I don't think convention. I actually want them, I want to, I want to grab them and go actually you really have value and I want to give you value.

I want to coach and train you. So it's a lot of all things which sounds like a long elevator journey but it's it. That's it is a lot of things.

I want to do something and I'm not particularly wanting to be a billionaire. It doesn't really interest me. Security money interests me. I do a lot of charity works, do loads of cycling things.

Again, that was linked back to the charity. I do a lot of work with goes into prisons and help helps young men come out of prison and supports them, give people a chance.

You look at the world sometimes they go, oh my goodness, we need more people helping other people. I've looked in the eyes of younger people and who are lost and gone.

I think I could help you and I'd love to be, I'd love to have some kind, kind of fun to go. I'm going to give you two years of me coaching you in the company and we're going to give you A chance. There's a couple of people.

I've not asked the permission, so I won't say the names. I love cycling. There's a guy you cycle with, a young guy, and he worked in a cycle shop.

Long story short, just got his English degree, had applied for, I don't know, 20, 30, 40 jobs, got nowhere. And he was the nicest guy, always smiling. This one day, he was just like, really long face. So what's wrong? He said, oh, he explained it to me.

So I just. I'm just. I don't know what I'm gonna do. I'm 22 years old. I don't know what I'm gonna do.

And I just won as a consultant where I had a choice to take 50% profit for myself or a choice to spend some of that profit on him. I said, well, let me give you six months and come work with me. And all I can give you is six months. That's all I can afford.

After that, you might have some experience. He's. Now he's probably doing better than me, which is a bit annoying, but. But, no, but he's done brilliantly. He's got a career in real estate.

He's amazing. He's the nicest guy. I'm so proud of him. Gym.

There's so many people that I want to do that with, and I think we can rethink the world a little bit like that. So rethink means many things. I love. I love technology, I love working with people. I love real estate.

And if I can blend a bit of my passion of, like, giving people a chance in that, then brilliant. I mean, that would make me very happy as an older man.

Tristan Kelly: 00:35:33

Fantastic.

Mike Galea: 00:35:33

Was that a high five moment? Tristan, would you. Would you class that story as a high five?

Tristan Kelly: 00:35:38

A good high five?

Mike Galea: 00:35:39

That's a great high five. A wonderful brain.

Peter, an absolute pleasure hearing your story, hearing your views, hearing your new business venture and your experience within workplace. What a privilege. What a treat. So thank you so, so much.

Mike Galea: 00:35:54

Pleasure.

Tristan Kelly: 00:36:00

Mike. What I've really enjoyed about that conversation with Peter is that he's taken what can sometimes feel like quite a cold subject.

Subject data centres, occupancy, utilisation. And made it feel very human. Because the big message for me is that data isn't there to give us all answers.

It's there to help us ask better questions.

Mike Galea: 00:36:20

Exactly. And I loved Peter's point about the difference between workplace analytics and workplace intelligence.

To me, it's not just about collecting more and more information because we can. It's about understanding what that information is telling us about people, behaviour, connection and performance.

And actually, sometimes the most powerful thing data can do is start the conversation. It gives you that little spark, that positive friction where you can say something is happening here, let's understand why.

Tristan Kelly: 00:36:50

And that's where trust comes in, doesn't it? Because Peter was really clear that data can be manipulated, misunderstood or over complicated.

But when it's used honestly, and when it's connected back to business priorities and human behaviour, it becomes incredibly valuable. It stops being a dashboard for dashboard's sake and starts becoming a way to improve how people actually experience the workplace.

Mike Galea: 00:37:16

And I thought his point about simplicity was brilliant as well. We often talk about the big shiny workplace features, the lounges, the collaboration zones, the statement spaces.

But Peter really brought it back to basics. People want work to be easier.

They want good technology, decent space, somewhere to focus, somewhere to connect, good coffee and fewer barriers way of doing good work.

Tristan Kelly: 00:37:39

Which is probably the perfect place to land this episode. The future of real estate isn't just about more data, more technology, more impressive buildings.

It's about using those things intelligently to create places that work better for people.

Mike Galea: 00:37:53

Huge, huge thanks to Peter Thompson for joining us and sharing such an honest, thoughtful and personal perspective. And as always, thank you for listening to High Fi, where insight meets empathy.

And if this episode made you think differently about data workplace or the future of real estate, please give it a share. Start a conversation and we'll look forward to seeing you next time.

Tristan Kelly: 00:38:16

High five.